blog: behind the scenes.

Jennifer Ramsey 9/29/23 Jennifer Ramsey 9/29/23

your sector-based approach: specificity drives strategy

In today's dynamic legal landscape, staying ahead of the curve is not just about providing top-notch legal services. It's about understanding your clients on a profound level and crafting a strategy that aligns with their needs. The sector-based approach is one such strategy that is gaining traction across the legal industry. But why should law firms consider this approach, and how can they embark on this transformative journey?

Why Should a Firm Consider a Sector-Based Approach?

This is an excellent question and an important one, particularly if law firms are approaching this as a strategic imperative versus a business development or marketing activity. Firms should consider a sector-based approach for three compelling reasons:

Client-Centric Focus: First and foremost, a sector-based approach is designed around the client. After all, it's the client companies that make up sectors/industries. So there is a shift in mindset from a firm-focused perspective to a client-centric conversation. It's about answering the question of how a law firm can best support clients in spotting opportunities and addressing pain points.
Effective Collaboration: Second, a sector-based approach is an effective collaboration framework. Collaboration is the gateway to higher-value matters, greater client loyalty, and increased firm profits. Fostering collaboration is achieved through a sector-specific strategy, which brings together lawyers from different practices and with different specializations with the sole purpose of helping solve problems for clients in a particular industry.
Competitive Advantage: It makes good business sense to understand a client's business, and it can give a law firm a huge competitive edge, particularly those willing to treat it as a strategic imperative. Once sectors, sub-sectors, and key clients within those have been identified, the roadmap for a law firm to target and position itself in front of those ideal audiences becomes all the more clear. Firms that have embraced this approach are consistently among the top-grossing in the world.

The strong "why" behind a sector approach prioritizes clients, brings together lawyer teams to collaboratively solve problems, and gives firms an edge in the marketplace.

How Can Law Firm Leaders Get Started? Where Do They Begin?

Once the "why" is answered, the "how" comes into play. It's critical to do some internal heavy lifting first. For that, we use a Design-Build-Run Framework.

Design: This phase includes mapping the firm's entire client base to an industry classification system, conducting a SWOT analysis of the firm's sector strengths, and establishing a financial framework for incentives and compensation for industry/sector leaders, dedicated budgets for teams, and KPIs to measure success.
Build: This involves identifying and appointing team leaders, recruiting working group members with industry expertise, and rolling out a firm-wide communications campaign that clearly articulates the "why" and "how" and offers opportunities for contributions.
Run: Once the infrastructure is in place, industry teams are empowered and operationalized as functional business units responsible for going to market, driving demand, and delighting clients.

To design, build out, and run a holistic, enterprise-wide sector approach takes time, approximately 9-12 months for the internal infrastructure piece.

How Do You Go-to-Market with a Sector-Specific Strategy?

Once the internal infrastructure has been set up, it's time to go-to-market with a sector-specific strategy. We utilize the segmentation-targeting-positioning (STP) framework as a guide.

Segment: Analyze which segments to prioritize and focus on, typically 3-5 max. Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP's focus on tech, energy/infra, and finance is an excellent example of this approach.
Target: Edge your investment toward attractive sub-industries within promising sectors. The more granular, the better. Kirkland & Ellis' focus on private equity within the broader financial sector is a successful example.
Position: After fully understanding your buyers, their position in the industry, and their opportunities and pain points, position your products/services to be accretive to the client's business and solve their problems.

How Do You Measure Success?

There are several quantifiable metrics to gauge success:

Percentage growth year over year in a particular industry
Individual client revenue and profitability statistics
Performance at the client level, such as the number of sustaining and growing clients year over year in a particular industry
Track the number of cross-selling opportunities that have been realized by the industry program. Measure the percentage of clients who have engaged multiple practice areas within the firm
Regularly survey clients within the industry program to gauge their satisfaction
Assess the program's thought leadership recognition within the industry
Document and share success stories and cases studies from clients within the industry program

Biggest Opportunities and Challenges

The biggest opportunities of implementing a sector-specific strategy include a client-centered focus and the framework it provides for involving specific lawyer teams within a law firm. It also facilitates lateral partner integration and a BD mentoring framework for partner-track counsel.

The biggest challenges include resource allocation and hesitancy to focus on a few sectors and sub-industries within them. But, remember, specificity paves the way for success.

In conclusion, Zig Ziglar said, "Don't become a wandering generality. Be a meaningful specific." Firms should be bold and get specific about sub-industries where they have significant strengths or compelling market opportunities. Specificity sets the #stage for success, stronger client relationships, greater collaboration, and a formidable competitive advantage.

Megan Senese 9/29/23 Megan Senese 9/29/23

Megan Senese authors article in Bloomberg Law: Win the Tug of War for Law Talent with These Strategies

article in bloomberg law

Brian Carrozza, Courtney Cook Hudson, and Megan Senese say Big Law firms should re-evaluate their firm management and strategy to retain top talent and build a culture of transparency, communication, and collaboration.

Increased competition for shrinking profit margins has only escalated the war for talent. Forty-four percent of lateral partners cite a lack of confidence in firm management and strategy, according to a recent Major, Lindsey & Africa report.

It’s imperative for legal marketing, business development, and other business operations professionals to be equipped with the right strategies, tactics, and tools to integrate new partners and other attorneys.

How can law firms attract, integrate, and retain top talent across all levels while gaining a competitive advantage?

Recruit

The Major, Lindsey & Africa report found a lack of confidence in firm management and strategy to be the number one reason why law firm partners consider leaving their firms. Effective integration of laterals into their new firms was the single best predictor of satisfaction.

Stakeholders should collaborate to craft messaging that speaks to the firm’s differentiators, value propositions, and core principles, emphasizing how a particular attorney or practice fits into the firmwide strategy. They also should explain how the firm allocates resources to support growth, enhance client service, and drive revenue, and why the firm’s culture and reputation are unique.

While an enthusiastic and upbeat tenor is essential, it’s critical that firms not overpromise but rather use the initial opportunity to set a tone and manage expectations.

Throughout the process, openness, honesty, and transparency are essential.

Integrate

To prepare a successful lateral integration plan, it’s important for the new partner’s business development liaison to work from the same foundation of information as the legal recruiting team, which includes the lateral’s resume, lateral partner questionnaire, and offer letter.

Arming business development liaisons with billable hours and origination goals for new lawyers will help position the liaison as a strategic adviser on day one. A liaison’s first meeting with a lateral should include an assessment of immediate needs about their book of business to ensure seamless client service and surface opportunities to expand portable relationships.

Consider why the lateral was hired—their niche expertise, specific client needs, regional presence for example—and make internal introductions accordingly. The business development liaison and the lateral should have incentives to work collaboratively to map out a client development plan, estimate revenue, identify potential service gaps, and support goals with specific strategies and tactics.

Create a written process to ensure consistent lateral experiences. A 12-month integration plan for new lawyers may include:

Probing questions to ask during each integration session/meeting
Guidelines for time-boxing goals
Templates for organizing and prioritizing client outreach
Business mentoring resources

The business development liaison should provide status updates to firm leadership and other stakeholders after each meeting. The most successful laterals are engaged and actively participate in regular coaching/integration calls.

During these calls, the liaison should have or obtain a grasp on resources provided to support the lateral, satisfaction with the firm, sense of being valued, client growth opportunities, bandwidth and utilization, and cross-selling successes or frustrations. Flagging issues in real time allows liaisons and firm leaders to remove roadblocks.

Retain

The legal landscape is witnessing an all-out battle as firms vie to attract fresh lateral partners and attorneys, simultaneously grappling with retaining their existing talent pool and navigating competing pricing demands. As legal expertise evolves across generations, the playbook for retaining lawyers is transforming.

Delving into the motivations and core values of why a lateral partner is looking for a new opportunity is paramount to pursuing high retention levels. It’s important for the hiring committee and other stakeholders to understand these motivations.

Understandably, many law firms are hyper-focused on onboarding, integrating, and growing relationships with new clients that have ported over with a lateral. But firms also should be thinking about how to integrate laterals into at least a handful of significant existing client relationships.

One of the best ways to ensure lateral longevity is to think of cross-selling as a two-way street. To whom can the new lawyer introduce new colleagues, and vice versa? The idea of cross-selling should be broadened beyond client relationships to include adding the new lawyer to business development initiatives, affinity groups, and client teams without jumping through bureaucratic approval processes. These steps should help new lawyers feel a sense of inclusion.

Gone are the days when law firms could merely rely on their brand reputation to ensure that newly onboarded attorneys would be satisfied. Taking a moment to understand why lawyers are leaving or remaining with their current firms will illuminate the competitive landscape and help build a better lateral program.

The current climate requires a substantial investment of time and resources beyond front-loaded messaging with little impact. Firms need to build a culture of transparency, communication, collaboration, and dedication to turn retention strategies into actions and actions into loyalty.

Click here to read on BloombergLaw.com

Megan Senese 9/20/23 Megan Senese 9/20/23

spotlight: Lora Krsulich

spotlight of Lora Krsulich

stage supports business development from behind the scenes to guide lawyers to help their clients shine.

today's spotlight features Lora Krsulich (Litigation Associate Susman Godfrey LLP). Lora's energetic and empathetic approach shines through in her legal work and with her clients.

we are ecstatic to share Lora's spotlight today.

Megan Senese 9/20/23 Megan Senese 9/20/23

podcast: megan senese + powerhouse women show

Aliza Freud and SheSpeaks Inc. created a platform with The Powerhouse Women Show for women to talk and share their stories in an authentic way.

Authentic storytelling is a core pillar of how stage works to support our lawyers and legal marketing departments who want to show up differently.

Megan Senese 9/20/23 Megan Senese 9/20/23

leveraging existing clients for revenue growth

Acquiring new clients is a challenge; the time and investment can be significant.

But here's a game-changer: instead of constantly seeking new business opportunities, why not tap into the goldmine already in your client base?

Start by engaging with your existing clients to discover how you can provide more value. Ask them what challenges they are currently facing or what additional support they might need.

By initiating these open-ended questions, you not only strengthen your existing relationships but uncover your clients' core needs, demonstrating that you care.

Investing in your current clients isn't just about retention; it's about driving growth through understanding and meeting their evolving needs.

podcast: kathleen hilton + wonder women

remaining open to others in sales and #businessdevelopment is a powerful and essential trait that can make a significant difference in building strong relationships and trust and ultimately driving successful outcomes.

when you are open and genuine with your clients, that builds #trust. when people feel that you are transparent and honest, they are more likely to feel comfortable doing business with you. (how to hack: prioritize those with whom you find an #authentic connection. deprioritize relationships that feel like work.)

being open means actively listening to your client's needs, concerns, and feedback. by truly understanding the client's requirements, you can tailor your approach to meet their specific needs, increasing the chances of closing a deal. (how to hack: embrace the 80/20 rule, avoid anticipatory listening -- especially tough for #lawyers who are trained to problem solve - but do-able!)

being open allows you to connect with your customers on a deeper level. when you show #empathy and understanding, that fosters a sense of connection and rapport. this emotional connection can set you apart from competitors and make customers more inclined to choose you over others. (how to hack: adopt a go-giver mindset; what can you give or share with this person that will help them?)

listen here

Megan Senese 9/20/23 Megan Senese 9/20/23

Megan Senese + Jennifer Ramsey collaborates with Nexl

Photo of Jennifer Ramsey, Megan Senese & Ben

Co-founders + principals of stage, Jennifer Ramsey and Megan Senese, joined Nexl’s Chief Growth Officer Ben Chiriboga during Nexl’s OneFirm webinar showcasing the transformative potential of collaboration within law firms.

They discussed the power of collaboration and t and tools necessary to enhance client retention and success in law firms.

image of jennifer ramsey, megan senese for the NEXL workshop

Megan Senese 9/20/23 Megan Senese 9/20/23

spotlight: Patrick Cusick

spotlight feature on Patrick Cusick

every week stage spotlights #lawyers and #legalmarketing professionals as the main characters.

today's spotlight is on Patrick Cusick (Director, Law Firm Services Armanino LLP). Patrick is kind, curious, and wonderful at networking.

we are delighted to share Patrick's spotlight.

Megan Senese 9/8/23 Megan Senese 9/8/23

Megan Senese authors article in Law360: Perfecting Outreach Cadence Between Lawyers And Clients

article on Law360 for how to perfect client outreach

Megan Senese authored a Law360 article describing the obstacles that get in the way of creating a regular communication cadence with clients and prospects.

Billable work, mentorship, and myriad other obligations get in the way of creating a regular communication cadence with clients and prospects. Perhaps three months have passed before a lawyer has had the space to reengage with their client.

Once the lawyer is ready to reconnect, panic might set in. The lawyer may be trying to figure out how to reactivate a rapport, thinking about what excuse is needed to reach out, or simply what to say in outreach communication.

This lack of cadence is among the top concerns articulated by lawyers and marketing professionals. Too often, fear and uncertainty drive lawyers into the safety of stasis and silence — avoiding non-matter-centric communication. Let's break down the concerns.

What do I say?
It will take too much time.
What if the client doesn't respond? Rejection!
What if I am bothering them?
I want to reach out, but I need to figure out where to start.
What if I say something wrong?
What if I have nothing impactful or insightful to say?

Here are some potential approaches to reaching out to a dormant relationship.

Connect With Empathy

The new equation to building business is relationships plus empathy. The view of business relationships between lawyers and their clients is evolving. Moving out of transactional modality and into personal relationships by being human, i.e., professional, personal and friendly, is one way to gain a competitive edge. One way to connect with empathy is to determine a contact's communication style and preferred way to receive information, from formal legal opinions to informal check-in notes. Leveraging this understanding will reduce uncertainty, since the lawyer will know for sure whether their client likes to receive client alerts or loves to be entertained. It is best practice to ask client contacts about their communication and information preferences and not make assumptions. While most general counsel appreciate receiving notes, invitations and industry-specific articles tailored to their needs, others might not. For example, a general counsel might only want to play golf with their outside firms, while another may favor involvement in their preferred charitable organization, and yet another might delight in having their family invited to activities. Clients want commercial advice Megan Senese from outside counsel, yet prefer different activities for relationship building.

Once the client's preferences are determined, a law firm marketing professional can collaborate and draft outreach templates as a starting point for lawyers to customize further. Using a template addresses the lack of time that lawyers often encounter as an obstacle for reaching out.

Tailoring the note demonstrates that one genuinely cares about the client's well-being and values the business relationship by creating a personal connection, remembering family members' names, sending a note or celebrating their successes.

Showing empathy and understanding fosters a sense of connection and a bond with that client. Forging the emotional connection will set the lawyer apart from competing law firms and make clients more inclined to choose that lawyer over others.

At this three-month inflection point, the outreach is about personally checking in with the client and demonstrating that the lawyer understands the challenges and demands the client may have faced during the past three months.

It is less about what the client can do for the lawyer and all about how the lawyer can help that client. It is about becoming a resource for people while also learning about them. When contacting a client, starting with a personal touch can be helpful.

The note could mention how long it has been since the last connection. It might share a personal anecdote, and invite the client to join the lawyer in an activity that the client enjoys. Alternatively, the note can be as simple as a friendly check-in on the person's wellbeing.

Consistency Is Key

After making the first reconnection outreach, consider a mindset shift toward building long-term relationships in each meeting and interaction instead of thinking there is only one opportunity for the deal or transaction.

An empathetic and systematic approach to building relationships reduces the pressure and stress around winning work. Create a streamlined schedule or simple chart at the onset for reaching out to contacts. Initially, this might look like setting up calendar reminders to reach out to specific contacts or setting up news alerts to track clients' company news. Many relationship management systems can also aid with automating but also pay attention to the power of a handwritten note and the human touch. As each relationship builds, outreach and communication will become more organic and free-flowing. Maintaining a consistent communication cadence is crucial to building solid client relationships.

After the initial outreach, following up and continuing to communicate with compassion is essential. When clients are shown that their business is truly valued by their lawyer and that their success is a top priority, a stronger and more meaningful connection is established and can lead to greater loyalty and long-term partnerships. A communication breakdown can occur when follow-up plans are not meaningful or tailored, resulting in dormant and stale relationships.

Staying in touch and providing relevant updates is meaningful to build trust and ensure clients feel supported throughout their customer journey. Demonstrating a deep investment in clients as individuals can reduce the risk of them choosing a competitor for important matters.

Actively Listen

Lawyers should arrive at client conversations prepared and informed about the contact, the client's activities, and their industry's opportunities and challenges. Preparation enables the lawyer to ask informed questions. Listen when reconnecting with the client, prospect or contact.

Be curious, open and engaged. Asking "How might I help?" is a beautifully open-ended and empathetic question. Then listen and immerse in the conversation. Avoid predictive listening — meaning do not jump to solutions or problem-solving on the spot in response to what the person is sharing.

Be Authentic

Tell stories to connect and establish an understanding, credibility, and trust with your clients. Show the value you can bring to the people you interact with daily. Authenticity draws people in as we emerge from pandemic life and search for something real. How to be authentic is the parallel question. Not necessarily because people do not know how to be themselves but because they have been trained to be professional, typically a specific professional archetype. Often, how people define the term professional does not equal authenticity, but that is now changing to allow space for clients and lawyers to be themselves.

The lawyer can rebuild and strengthen their client relationship by employing empathy in reconnection. When demonstrating empathy toward a client, the lawyer shows the client they are valued and that there is a commitment to their success and well-being.

Click here to read on Law360.com

Jennifer Ramsey 8/16/23 Jennifer Ramsey 8/16/23

off the mat. on-demand: guided breathing for lawyers and legal marketing professionals

This 30-minute practice will equip you with essential techniques to reconnect with your breath, fostering a sense of calm and vitality that can be applied "off the mat.”

Activate the Power of Your Breath: Virtual Breathwork by Jennifer. Life is increasingly frenetic.

Do you find yourself holding your breath during intense moments?

Do you notice that your breath often feels shallow? Do you struggle to catch your breath as you go about your day?

When was the last time you took a deep, deliberate inhale and an equally deep, deliberate exhale?

When was the last time you slowed down and took several deep breaths in a row?

This 30-minute practice will equip you with essential techniques to reconnect with your breath, fostering a sense of calm and vitality that can be applied "off the mat.” stage co-founder and certified yoga instructor Jennifer Ramsey will guide us through focused breathwork. Show up wherever you are. No yoga experience is required. Attendees will be off-camera.

Megan Senese 8/8/23 Megan Senese 8/8/23

gratitude for 6-month anniversary

monday August 7, 2023…more than just another monday for stage. today marks 6 months in business for our woman-owned start-up. thus we write with gratitude.

while cognizant a 6-month milestone is not a best screenplay Oscar win for stage we thought a 3x3x3 was merited.

3 areas where we knocked it out of the park:
-kept our focus on implementing a relationship-centered approach to growth
-continuous support of women and minority-owned businesses, collectives and individuals
-maintained a go-giver mentality and led with humor…as appropriate

3 areas where we achieved status quo:
-incorporated as an S Corp [not as easy as it may sound….whew!]
-met our milestone revenue goal for 2023 in june
-met our participant goal for corduroy, our proprietary BD coaching services for those on parental leave

3 areas where continuous improvement will be necessary:
-moving from a heavily matrixed enterprise to equal ownership in a start-up is complex, we are a work-in-progress!
-balance - one of the drivers behind stage's launch was a shared wish for autonomy and balance. balance is elusive. another evergreen journey.
-culture and a clear value proposition - here we struggle with what NOT to do versus what we embrace. channeling less is more and the power of no.

our gratitude encompasses the LinkedIn community. in large part, people are kind and generous. we can trace 2 clients (a law firm and a Big Law partner) to LinkedIn - which is fantastic ROI.

Guest User 8/8/23 Guest User 8/8/23

summer. a beautiful inflection point for gifting.

summer summer summer. a beautiful inflection point for gifting. a few ideas for inspiration.

photography. I just returned from a wonderful vacation tour of New England. grateful for friends and cousins who open their beautiful homes and are amazing hosts. take and print a photo of the home you visited and splurge on a frame. I have used this to good avail - as it is rare for people to take the time to print and frame. voila! not my best photography below, but you get the idea.

support small makers and go down the rabbit hole on Etsy. so many unique and amazing options abound, including gifts with personalization options: beach towels; recyclable tableware; straw bags; curated gift and wellness boxes....go nuts!

ice cream. I favor traditional flavors. ice cream for all -- those staying home; those entertaining; those who need a modest pick-me-up / thinking of you gift. Van Leeuwen Ice Cream is a personal fave - buttermilk berry cornbread and sicilian pistachio (yes, not for everyone) on repeat.

Jennifer Ramsey 8/8/23 Jennifer Ramsey 8/8/23

Is this heaven? No, it’s Iowa

3 takeaways from RAGBRAI for the business world

RAGBRAI is rolling through my home state of Iowa this week. My husband and I are in from California for this 7-day bicycle ride from the Missouri to Mississippi rivers, stopping in small towns along the way.

RAGBRAI is an acronym for The Register’s Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa. This year commemorates the 50th anniversary when two journalists from The Des Moines Register, John Karras and Donald Kaul set out in 1973 to ride across the state to write about their adventures and invited readers to join them. It’s grown exponentially since then, with this year’s ride anticipated to attract tens of thousands of bicyclists from all over the world.

Being back in Iowa for RAGBRAI and returning to my Midwestern roots gives me an opportunity to reflect on 3 takeaways from RAGBRAI for the business world.

Authenticity is a way of being here in Iowa versus being a business buzzword. Authenticity is literally how people show up for RAGBRAI without having to say the word - from the locals at the American Legions, fire stations and churches who make homemade food for all the riders to the families who sit at the end of their driveways along the route and smile and wave to everyone as they ride by. They show up because they genuinely want to help, support and cheer on the riders as we ramble down the road. Unspoken. Understated.

Small acts of kindness happen at every turn. RAGBRAI brings out the best in humanity. There is an instinctual willingness to help others. One of the coolest parts of RAGBRAI is the Air Force Cycling Team. Approximately 100 members of the Air Force ride RAGBRAI every year and provide aid to other riders with equipment issues and assist with injuries. I witnessed this first hand on my inaugural RAGBRAI in 2019 - my husband popped a spoke on his back tire, and out of nowhere, an Air Force rider swooped in to help before we could even get off our bikes. They truly are Guardian Angels of the Road. Thank you, Air Force Cycling Team, for your service.

Change the scenery to spark creativity. That’s exactly what Karras and Kaul did when they set out on the very first RAGBRAI to find inspiration for their newspaper columns. Sitting at the same old desk in the same old office can get mundane and monotonous. New scenery shakes things up, boosts motivation, and increases productivity. My best work ideas have come not when I am at my desk but when I’ve changed my scenery. And for this week, there’s no better scenery than Iowa.

One other takeaway from RAGBRAI that I will fully embrace and take with me as I return to the daily grind - it’s ok to eat pie for breakfast every once in a while.

Megan Senese 8/1/23 Megan Senese 8/1/23

CMO Series EP105 - Megan Senese of stage on taking a client-first approach to legal business development

Understanding the client's needs is a fundamental skill in legal business development, traditional protocols and precedents can inadvertently hinder business growth.

While understanding the client's needs is a fundamental skill in legal business development, traditional protocols and precedents can inadvertently hinder business growth.

On this episode of the Passle CMO Series podcast, we explore the challenges that professionals face in building successful client relationships with someone well-versed in doing just that both in-house and now as a consultant.

Ed Lovatt is lucky to sit down with Megan Senese, Co-founder of Stage, to share her journey of transitioning from Big Law to entrepreneurship. Together with her former colleagues, she founded Stage, a marketing and business development company aimed at assisting busy lawyers in expanding their practices.

Megan reflects on the lessons learned from starting a new venture in the legal industry, offering valuable insights and practical tips that in-house business development teams can apply to enhance their strategies and drive growth.

Megan and Ed discuss:

Megan’s unique career in professional services from KPMG to legal, and now setting up Stage with her former in-house team
The importance of a client focus in business development
The different approaches to BD Megan discovered after starting her own company
The key opportunities for BD that law firms could take advantage of, based on Megan's in-house career experiences
The significance of understanding the clients and how you go about learning that information and delivering value
Advice for in-house BD professionals looking to take a more client-focused approach

Ed: Welcome to the Passle CMO Series Podcast today. We're going to be taking a client-first approach to legal business development. That's the topic.

Today's guest is actually taking quite a big leap from big law, and together with her former colleagues, she set up a marketing and business development company to help busy lawyers grow their business. And we're incredibly lucky to welcome Megan Senese, Co-founder of stage to discuss the lessons learned from starting a new venture. And what in-house BD can take from her experience.

Welcome to the podcast, Megan.

Megan: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me.

Ed: It's been a discussion that we've had for a few months now. I think, gosh, end of 2022, we started talking about it. And so it's really great to finally get you on.

Megan: Yes, it's hard to even imagine that it's been that many months, but it's kind of all gone by in a weird flash, a weird blur.

Ed: I think because you've been quite busy with obviously setting up a new venture, chatting away with you over the last couple of months you could easily say time has just flown past, and I think most people would agree that 2023 is flying past.

Megan: Yeah. It's just luckily we're not in a weird, time warp of 2020. So, anything compared to that feels great and glorious.

Ed: I've forgotten what that year was about anyway. So, it's fine. Now, Megan, we've chatted before, and I know a little bit about your background, and this is kind of where we set up the conversation before about getting you onto the podcast. You've had a pretty unique career in professional services, starting out at KPMG and then moving into the legal sector and now setting up stage with your former in-house team. Can you tell us a little bit more about that journey? Maybe go into a little bit more depth.

Megan: Yes, absolutely. I love telling my KPMG story. It does date me a little. I mean, I'm not that old, but it does date me a little. I love to start the KPMG story that I applied through Monster. I thought KPMG was a radio station. So that just goes to show you I had absolutely no idea what professional service marketing was. They just don't talk about that in college, right? And nobody kind of dreams about legal marketing as the kind of sexy, sexy. Maybe you want to be a product marketer… anyway. I started KPMG and got introduced to account management and industry focus. And I think that is really what put me on the path from a legal marketing perspective, stayed at KPMG for a couple of years. And then someone said, why don't you try law firms? And, of course, I never heard of them for marketing. I was, oh, I didn't know that law firms needed marketing and business development support. And I joined McDermott, and then I basically never got out of legal marketing up until, a couple of months ago and bounced around from a couple of firms, and now I'm Co-founder and Principal of stage with Kathleen Hilton and Jennifer Ramsey. We met at our last firm. We were a team and worked together for the last, 6.5 years and decided to make this big jump together and now we own our own company, which is pretty exciting.

Ed: Obviously, you guys all work together, and I think, jumping into that new title of Co-founder and Principle sounds like a real thrill ride.

Megan: It's equally thrilling as it is terrifying. There's definitely some familiarity with working together, and we know what the three of our strengths are and where our weaknesses are. But there is definitely a new way of working as we are creating our own business. And, I think that's kind of one of just kind of one quick little thing that we weren't necessarily expecting. This will just seamlessly transfer over and it did in a lot of ways, but it's been a business crash course, if you will. And it's been really exciting but also terrifying to kind of be out there on your own in a lot of ways.

Ed: I think it's probably a good mixture to have excitement and terror.

Megan: The terror is what motivates you, right?

Ed: Yes, exactly. And it's kind of what pushes you each day. The excitement is what you get out of it as well. But, when I said the word, terror, it made it sound so much worse.

Megan: Well, we've been saying it's kind of like a roller coaster, Right? Or it's a good terror. It's a little scary. It's a little scary to be out there kind of in that way. But it's a good scary. If you're not a little uncomfortable then you're not pushing yourself. You're not learning. And, and I think for the, I can only really speak for me, but I think for the three of us that is a big one of the reasons why we kind of took this jump.

Ed: Makes sense. Now we spoke previously about those in-house roles that you had that how they tended to have an industry or a client focus. When was it that you realized the importance of that approach when it came to business development? Do you think that there was maybe one light bulb moment or was there a number?

Megan: It's super interesting. My entire career basically from day one has had either an industry or key account focus and that positioned me differently from the beginning. The majority of the peers, in legal marketing, start kind of in a practice group. And, of course, law firms use a broader mix of both practice industry clients. And when they do that, those are the firms that tend to be more profitable. Usually, they are more collaborative, they have a better understanding of the client. And that taking kind of all of that and then realizing that it was unique, particularly as I left from firm to firm and I was being hired to come in and implement an industry program or come into stand up 41 client teams, which is something I did at another firm, I think realising it kind of from each of those instances, I worked at 3 different law firms and seeing how that experience every single time I stepped into a new role was unique. I think that it was kind of each of those moments kind of piled up. And when I started working, with Jen and Kathleen, that's when the three of us realised that we all had this kind of unique experience that we were able to collaborate, in-house. And now with stage, that's our main focus, positioning the client and the lawyer to be able to address their needs from that client perspective, which sometimes you don't get when you're kind of siloed.

Ed: Now that you've started stage, your own company. What are the different approaches that you're taking to BD?

Megan: Yeah, I mean, I love this question. I touched on a little bit about how it's been a crash course on business. And I think we've had this really positive reaction in the marketplace with the launch of our business, which feels great and kind of, eases some of that terror. But, our main focus has been creating is trying to create authentic relationships and connecting people to one another. We believe in the power of connectivity and that it will kind of all come back around. And I think there's a little bit of getting to practice what we've been preaching for the, for me for the last 16 years when it's easy to be in-house and tell the lawyers, and you need to go and network and you need to go and write and you also need to do the billable work and speak and get on podcasts and write on LinkedIn and now being on the other side, it's, we're practicing exactly all the things that we were saying in house and maybe didn't necessarily get the exposure or the opportunity from a BD side to do it yourselves. And I can only imagine the leverage and that kind of forward momentum that big law would be able to capitalize if they allowed more in-house BD and sales teams to kind of take this approach and be more client-facing. I had such a strong desire to be more client-facing when I was in-house, and not every firm is super comfortable or maybe there, there's politics involved with having their BD team be in front of, their clients. And now we're doing it ourselves. And I mean, I love it. I kind of love all of it. I love the networking and the approach that works for me in our company, I love figuring out the sales life cycle and how we differentiate and, distinguish our brand. I love all of it. It just allows me to know that we are doing the right thing we made the right decision.

Ed: Yeah, I suppose it gives you that reassurance, that feeling that you're getting from it, that sense of loving it and enjoying it and that you've made the right decision.

Megan: Yeah, totally.

Ed: Again, reflecting, I'm jumping back and forth between your previous roles and your new role at Stage. But reflecting on your in-house career, are there any key approaches or opportunities for BD that you think law firms could be taking advantage of?

Megan: Yeah, I mean, this response could go in many directions. The first thing that comes to mind is more one-to-one support for the lawyers that might not get all of the resources that perhaps the top biller gets. The one-to-one support from my perspective and what we had seen when we were in-house and now we're on the other side, I'm outhouse now, the one-to-one support is where BD teams can get to do the real work, the real coaching, the targeting, developing the strategic plans, a pursuit plan, that kind of one-one is where we've been able to see a real return on investment, which is really hard to demonstrate, at least from a BD perspective, right? Everyone wants that ROI and the life cycle takes a really long time and you're not really sure when you're in-house, if the idea that you suggested resulted in work or it just was a matter of timing. And we, we love that one-to-one. I'm gonna share a quick little story. We had been supporting this kind of gigantic lead with a new lateral partner. And they wanted to make introductions in a new area that this client had and they didn't know the firm's capabilities or even the people that closely yet, because they had just joined the firm. And this is where, Jen and I were able to come in, we set up a one-to-one call. We created just a social, a virtual social event. It was, still COVID and we just put together the right group of people. This partner knew the temperament of the client. And Jen and I were able to assign and align the right people to not only to the client but with the people that were going to be coming together. And because of this relationship, building kind of activity, we provided the right research, they literally got a matter out of this event which we feel is never really happened. Direct, the partner reported back on it and it was probably one of the quickest sales cycle that we had ever seen. I think we set up this call in, January or something and we got new work in April. And I think it's really figuring out kind of on this one-to-one where sometimes that can become a scale issue. But that one-to-one support is really where you can make the most impact. And, speaking of scale, there's so many legal tech options so you can streamline things. And to the extent that people are looking at technology, that could be a completely different podcast, I'm sure. Incorporate different technologies to streamline some efficient inefficiencies and things like that.

Ed: And I think that kind of ties in with something that you'd mentioned to me before and that's about really understanding what's valuable to the client. That's kind of how you could probably why this sales cycle that you just mentioned happens quickly you had an understanding already. Are there any top tips, or any specific ways that you would go about getting that information?

Megan: Yeah, I mean, there are lots of ways, of course. You can learn a lot about the client by first doing your own research, reading their website, reading their social media just, as reading as much as you can about the client. That when you get the opportunity to ask the client, what's on your mind, you're asking the client in an informed way. I think a lot of firms get shy of asking their clients, not all, but, you don't want to seem you don't know them, but I think a lot of clients want to be asked what's important to you right now, how can we help you? What's your biggest challenge? And this can be for any lawyer, a sole practitioner all the way, y, down to the Top 10, right? If you're just listening and asking your client, that's one of the most valuable tools that you can determine what the biggest issue for the client is. Every time a lawyer asks their client what's important and proactively is seeking out their values, it just creates another opportunity for that relationship to deepen and then figuring out what to do with all that information. You spend all this time reading and figuring out stuff, and now you've got this massive amount of data. Now what do you do with it? And I think that's really part of where the value comes in and that's where you can bring in your BD team or your consultant and prepare some kind of report that is actionable and short so that the lawyer doesn't have to spend hours reading the reams of paper. That's I think that's really kind of critical in terms of figuring out how that lawyer can help where the gaps are coupling it with client listening. It's kind of where the magic happens. I guess a bonus tip if you have associates, pull them in too, right? Introduce them to the clients' kind of equivalent associate level and really entrench the firm across all the levels.

Ed: Yeah, it sounds almost like a bit of a mining expedition. You want to go and do a load of digging, but actually, you still need to look through it to find the bits that are the key part that is going to help deliver that value.

Megan: Right. And I think sometimes with associate to associate or they might be able to uncover more nuggets of information. A couple of firms ago, they had a really big secondment program, and the amount of information that the secondee would come back with just figuring out because they sat on the floor with the client or they sat next to the general counsel's office. They were exposed to so much more information just from being there. But also they were asking if they were maybe a little more informal and they were able to find out much more than when you're setting up a formal kind of meet and greet for 20 minutes, right? Kind of pressed for time and maybe not all the juicy stuff comes out immediately.

Ed: Yeah, it makes perfect sense and it's one of those things that's probably quite obvious to a few people, but also once you hear it out loud, you start thinking actually that makes that does make sense. That is something that we need to act on, or at least action maybe. I'm glad we're having this conversation, Megan.

Megan: Yeah. Well, I mean, just because it’s simple, doesn't mean it's easy. You have to make time for it. And there's much pressure on everybody. On the BD team, they're extremely resource-constrained and time-pressed and there are many things they have to kind of turn out and that's even more for the lawyer. They have billable time, they have pro bono work, there's work-life balance, there's the mental health crisis, there's, pressing recession, there are many things that people just need to carve out time for any kind of creating new, micro habits to address some of these things.

Ed: Absolutely. Lots of other things to take into perspective as well. The list is almost endless.

Megan: Yeah, for sure.

Ed: We normally, when we get towards the end of the podcast, we come up with the last question. And it's quite a difficult one because we ask you for what would be your one piece of advice. And for you, I suppose, for in-house BD professionals, looking to make a more client-focused approach. Now, if you can think of that one piece of advice, I know there's probably gonna be many.

Megan: Just one thing, there's so many. All right. Well, I'll make it super simple then and everyone will be yeah, of course, we know this, but since you asked and I'm on the podcast, then I can say what I want. I think it always comes back to adapting this kind of external view, which is again, easier to say, harder to do sometimes. And we talked about the press, the internal press of life and what it's like to be in-house, and all of these activities are important. But I think starting small, creating these new micro habits about how to create this external view of the client of the industry. Perhaps that's a new cadence of scanning the news for trends and topics that might be applicable to your practice group or your industry or the client team that you are supporting and then thinking about what you're reading and how that might intersect with the knowledge of your firm's clients. And then bringing that knowledge to the lawyers in this format that's easy to read, easy to digest, super actionable, right? We all get so much news and you're like, great, what do I what do you want me to do with this? And just maybe a sentence or two that is positioning the lawyer with some action that they can create additional trust points with their clients. They have an excuse to reach out to their clients and maybe just raising your hand if you're in-house within the BD team for opportunities around client feedback or client listening that you can get trained up and kind of thinking about it in that way.

Ed: I think that's some pretty good advice. It wasn't gonna be the one piece I know it's difficult to actually channel it down to. It's fine though because they're all interlinked. It is kind of one piece of advice. And they all kind of have that slight interlining where they have a bit of a knock-on effect on each other, which makes perfect sense. Now we come to the quick-fire round which uh can often throw a few very interesting answers up. Megan, I'm going to go through five very quick questions with you. And it would be great uh to hear some of your answers. I'm gonna make notes as well. Starting with What is your favorite business and non-business book?

Megan: Yes, I love this one. The book that I'm going to kind of set up as a little guessing game, this book was gifted to my husband probably about 13 years ago. The company that he works for gave it to them as the best business book in the world. It's the only book you need to read, to learn how to sell or hold your value proposition. Try out different scenarios. It demonstrates grit, determination. It's super easy to read. And the drum roll for this book is Green Eggs and Ham. It's a Dr Seuss book. It goes through all different ways to keep trying something, try something, try something, try something. And I just kind of love how clever that is. And that's what I'm gonna answer for that one.

Ed: Good answer and non-business book? I suppose it's the same.

Megan: If you just want an interesting story…

Ed: I'd not heard of it until I moved to the US eight years ago. And I've since heard of it a few times now and it's definitely actually something I'll pick up and read again. I'll ask you this second quick-fire question. This is sometimes when we get a really funny answer. But what was your first job?

Megan: Yeah. My first job was working at an ice cream store. I worked there before I even had working papers, don't tell anybody I was 14. I had to convince them to hire me about a month before my 15th birthday And I was allowed to kind of work part-time. And I said to them, I know I'm not even 15 yet, but I'll show you that I'm a really good worker and if you hire me and you don't like how I perform then you can fire me. And I actually, I worked there for a year and then I found another job with better hourly pay. And, I mean, anyone who's worked in retail will know that the customer service skills you learn there translate easily into any professional career and particularly big law and now with stage, of course, it's just really about the people, how you make them feel and how you care for them. So, it starts with ice cream.

Ed: Did you get fed up with ice cream after a year?

Megan: We were allowed one ice cream per shift and I definitely did not adhere to that. I was eating a lot more than one ice cream per shift. I had one super strong arm. But, when you're a teenager, it doesn't even really matter. But I, no, you never get, you never get sick of the ice cream, but I definitely exceeded my one ice cream per shift allotment.

Ed: The third question is sometimes a little deeper. But what makes you happy at work?

Megan: What makes me happy at work? I guess when we're able to help, we guide lawyers and support them trying to make client connections or following them kind of along with their client journey, getting a win or a new matter or new assignment. All of those, when all of those kind of trust points align. That’s the best feeling when we get to help lawyers with their clients their win is our win. And that's kind of maybe selfishly an amazing high, right? We're just out to get that high all the time.

Ed: I think you're allowed to be a little bit selfish when it comes to that. What is it that you're listening to at the moment? And this could be something like an audiobook, music, or radio podcast maybe?

Megan: Yeah. I just finished watching Daisy and the Six on Amazon. I'm kind of obsessed with listening to the soundtrack and of course, I need to plug Stage's weekly playlist. We have a playlist that we put out once a week. It's on our LinkedIn company page you can listen to that. But there's an amazingly hilarious podcast called SmartLess. It makes me laugh every episode. And there's another kind of newer podcast for me and I'm also going to be a guest on it and it's called For Your Listening Pleasure. Those are all the kinds of things that I've been trying to squeeze in between, launching a business and helping people and being a parent, and all the things.

Ed: You've got your hands full a little bit. I'm gonna make sure I listen to that podcast when it gets released.

Megan: Oh, thanks.

Ed: Last one for you in the quick-fire round. Where is your favorite place to visit? And why?

Megan: I wish I could visit these two places more. I would jet off to Hawaii in an instant or, Tahiti, which is where I had my honeymoon. Both of those places were just fun sun surf, kind of all, of the picture-perfect things. We went to Hawaii for New Year's one year. My husband and I kind of started the New Year off doing super early morning yoga, overlooking the ocean and it sounds as perfect as you can imagine. And it was just a kind of magical way to start the New Year. And I'd love to be able to go back. It’s just not around the corner.

Ed: No. But it sounds like island life is the one for you maybe.

Megan: Well, I do live on Long Island. It's just not quite the same.

Ed: Slight difference, but we won't go into that. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast with me, Megan. It's been really fantastic to get to know you over the previous few months, but also to have this conversation with you and record it so that we can let the listeners hear some of your incredible knowledge.

Megan: Oh, thank you so much. It's been super fun and I've been really honored to be included and you've had some really fantastic guests. And just the fact that I get to have my name next to those people is like an award.

Ed: Wishing you the best with Stage and we'll speak soon.