A Human Approach to Law Firm Business Development (with Andraya Brunau)
“I think it’s starting that conversation that there's not just one right way to learn law and have a practice in law.” - Andraya Brunau
Law firm business development does not have to mean becoming someone you are not.
In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey sit down with IP litigation partner Andraya Brunau to explore what it looks like to build a legal career, a client base, and a team around genuine relationships.
Andraya shares how returning to law after parental leave helped her become more intentional about the practice she wanted to build. For her, a sustainable career is not only about finding work you enjoy. It is also about finding people you enjoy doing that work with.
That philosophy shapes the way she approaches business development. Rather than copying someone else’s version of rainmaking, Andraya focuses on clients who share her values, invests deeply in existing relationships, and builds trust with people who genuinely feel like part of the same team.
She is bringing that same thinking to the lawyers she leads.
Instead of waiting until senior associates are expected to produce business, Andraya is helping lawyers begin developing those skills earlier. One hour a month. Small opportunities to practice. Different approaches for different personalities. The goal is not to create one kind of rainmaker. It is to help every lawyer find a form of business development that feels natural, accessible, and sustainable.
In this episode, you will hear
Why returning from parental leave can clarify what you want from your legal career
How to identify the clients and relationships worth investing in
Why business development should begin before lawyers reach the senior-associate level
How law firms can make business development more accessible to different personalities
What it means to leave a firm, team, or practice better than you found it
Why there is no single right way to build a meaningful career in law
About Andraya Brunau:
Andraya Brunau is an intellectual property litigator and law firm leader whose practice focuses primarily on trademark and copyright litigation, along with patent counseling and litigation matters. She serves in leadership roles within her firm’s IP litigation and commercial litigation practices and is passionate about mentoring younger attorneys, making business development more accessible, and creating a better experience for the lawyers coming behind her.
Learn More:
Related episodes:
This episode is brought to you by stage’s program, corduroy:
corduroy offers business development support for lawyers navigating parental leave. corduroy is a free, four-session business development coaching engagement for lawyers returning from parental leave. Most lawyers don’t need more business development advice. They need business development that fits real life.
To learn more about corduroy for yourself or your team, contact us at info@stage.guide
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
Stop Looking at Your Competitors (Minis with Megan)
Your perspective is coming from the clients that only you have served, the problems you have solved, the relationships you have built. That’s what makes you different and interesting.
Yet, everywhere you look, you can see something that makes you feel as if you’re not doing it right or not doing enough.
In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese gives you permission to stop looking at what your competitors are doing, and instead, evaluate what you are doing and why you started doing it in the first place.
This can be particularly difficult in the legal field. Over the years, Megan has decided not to look at stage’s competitors because she wanted to make sure what she and Jen were building was uniquely theirs.
Despite popular belief, it’s actually not helpful to see every decision your competitor is making, every design they are creating, or every event they are hosting. Instead, focus on your business goals and the clients you are already serving.
Who this episode is for:
Lawyers trying to differentiate themselves in a crowded market
Legal marketers developing brands for law firms
Business owners who find themselves constantly comparing their work to competitors
Anyone struggling to figure out what makes their voice, perspective, or approach different
Episode takeaways:
Competitor research can be useful, but it shouldn’t become your strategy.
Constant comparison can unintentionally make your messaging sound like everyone else’s.
Differentiation comes from your own experiences, clients, relationships, and perspective.
Creativity needs space, and sometimes that means intentionally tuning out what everyone else is doing.
AI makes developing a distinct point of view even more important as content and messaging become increasingly similar.
How to stop building your brand around your competitors:
Keep a pulse without obsessing: Be aware of what others are doing in your industry without letting it dictate every decision you make.
Create space for your own ideas: Give yourself room to think before looking at how everyone else has approached the same problem.
Listen to your clients: Your clients are the greatest source of information for what’s going on in the market.
Use competitors to learn, not imitate: Pay attention to what works, and what doesn’t, without imitating.
Trust your perspective: You probably already have something worth saying. You may just need to stop listening to everyone else long enough to hear it.
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
The Ambition Paradox: Why Working Mothers Are Still Expected to Choose (with Dr. Anne Welsh)
“Yes, your kids matter. Yes, your job matters. But you matter, too.” - Dr. Anne Welsh
What if the answer to working motherhood isn’t about getting better at doing everything?
Maybe it starts with remembering that you’re a person in the mix and you matter, too.
In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey are joined by Dr. Anne Welsh, clinical psychologist, executive coach, and author of Ambitious Mother: From Surviving to Thriving in Your Career and at Home.
Anne was one of the podcast’s very first guests, and she’s back to talk about the book that grew from sentences scribbled in pickup lines, gymnastics waiting rooms, early mornings, and whatever five-minute pockets she could find to write.
Together, they unpack what Anne calls the “ambition paradox”: the message that being committed to your career somehow takes away from being a good mother, and that being a good mother requires sacrificing parts of yourself for the sake of work or other people.
They talk about the mounting expectations placed on mothers, why work can actually enrich our lives as parents, the perfectionism and people-pleasing so many women internalize, and what workplaces could do differently to support people with full lives outside of work.
Ultimately, Anne offers a reminder that applies whether you're a mother, a parent, or neither: you don't have to sacrifice everything in your life to be successful.
You’ll hear about:
Why working motherhood can feel like an impossible, zero-sum game
How Anne wrote her book five minutes at a time
The perfectionism, people-pleasing, and pretending that affect women far beyond motherhood
Why having something meaningful outside of work can make us more productive and resilient
How expectations of mothers have intensified over the past two decades
Why parental leave is only the beginning of the support working parents need
How law firms can better plan for caregiving without placing the burden on child-free colleagues
The difference between flexibility and true autonomy
Why every season of parenting, your career, or simply life may require a different definition of ambition
What happened when Anne took a chance and asked Robin Arzón to contribute the foreword to her book
About Dr. Anne Welsh:
Dr. Anne Welsh is a clinical psychologist, executive coach, consultant, and author whose work focuses on helping women navigate the intersection of career, ambition, identity, and family. Her book, Ambitious Mother: From Surviving to Thriving in Your Career and at Home, challenges the idea that women must choose between meaningful work and meaningful family lives, and offers practical tools for building a life that makes room for both, without losing yourself in the process.
Learn More:
Connect with Dr. Anne Welsh
Ambitious Mother: From Surviving to Thriving in Your Career and at Home
Learn more about Anne's coaching and work
Related episodes:
This episode is brought to you by Lateral Hub:
Lateral Hub is the premier job board for top large, midsize, and boutique firms. Over 75 firms use their flat-fee membership to promote openings to laterals and judicial clerks as a transparent, targeted, affordable alternative to headhunters or LinkedIn. No hassle. No placement fees. Hiring in 2026? Don’t recruit like it’s the Stone Age.
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
Business Development Can’t Happen If You’re Miserable (Minis with Megan)
Business development doesn't happen in a vacuum - it happens inside a culture.
In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese, shares a deeply personal story about interviewing for a new job just weeks after becoming a first time mother and how this is actually a larger conversation about workplace culture, drive and ambition.
Megan explores why talented people don't stop caring in unhealthy environments - they often care even more. But when people don't feel valued, trusted, or safe to contribute, even the strongest business development strategies begin to break down.
Who this episode is for:
Lawyers working in environments where they don't feel valued
Firm leaders looking to build stronger cultures and stronger business development
Professionals wondering whether their workplace is limiting their growth
Anyone trying to reconcile ambition with well-being
Episode takeaways:
Whether you believe it or not, workplace culture directly impacts business development
Feeling undervalued often causes people to become more guarded NOT less ambitious
Creativity, collaboration, and relationship-building require psychological safety
Sometimes ambition looks like leaving somewhere or something
Sustainable business development begins with environments where people feel seen, trusted, and supported
What to do if your environment is holding you back:
Pay attention to how your workplace makes you feel: Your environment shapes how confidently you show up.
Recognize that culture affects business development: People build relationships more naturally when they feel valued.
Stop mistaking survival for success: Working harder isn't always the answer.
Choose environments where you can contribute fully: Your best work happens where your voice is welcomed.
Remember that leaving isn't giving up: Sometimes it's the first step toward building the career you actually want.
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
What If You Don’t Know the Whole Story? White Collar Defense, Confirmation Bias, and the Courage to Listen (with Aaron Clark)
"Can you leave some space for the possibility that you don't know everything, that there could be another side to it?" - Aaron Clark
Most of us think we know exactly what a "white collar criminal" looks like. Aaron Clark wants us to question that assumption.
In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey are joined by Aaron Clark, white collar defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, for a conversation about justice, confirmation bias, and what it's like to stand beside people during the hardest moments of their lives.
Aaron shares why he left the U.S. Attorney's Office for private practice, what surprised him most about defending people accused of federal crimes, and why listening is often the most powerful skill a lawyer can have.
Along the way, the conversation explores reputation, second chances, business development, and why doing the brave thing every day often starts with something much smaller than you think.
Whether you're a lawyer, legal marketer, or simply someone who wants to think more critically before rushing to judgment, this episode offers a thoughtful reminder that every story has more than one side.
You'll hear about:
Why Aaron transitioned from federal prosecutor to white collar defense attorney
The misconceptions people have about white collar crime
How confirmation bias shapes investigations and everyday life
Why listening is one of the most valuable skills any lawyer can develop
The human cost of criminal accusations, even before a verdict is reached
What it's like to help clients navigate the most difficult moments of their lives
Building a book of business after leaving government practice
Why relationships, not sales tactics, drive long-term business development
The courage it takes to do something that scares you every day
How baking cookies became one of Aaron's favorite ways to connect with clients
About Aaron Clark: Aaron Clark is a white collar criminal defense attorney and former Assistant U.S. Attorney who spent years prosecuting federal cases before moving into private practice. Today, he represents individuals facing government investigations and high-stakes criminal matters, combining his experience on both sides of the courtroom with a thoughtful, people-first approach to advocacy.
This episode is brought to you by Lateral Hub:
Lateral Hub is the premier job board for top large, midsize, and boutique firms. Over 75 firms use their flat-fee membership to promote openings to laterals and judicial clerks as a transparent, targeted, affordable alternative to headhunters or LinkedIn. No hassle. No placement fees. Hiring in 2026? Don’t recruit like it’s the Stone Age.
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
You Are the Inspiration You’ve Been Waiting For (Minis with Megan)
What if the thing you have been waiting for is you?
The right idea. The perfect timing. The person who finally sees your potential. The conversation that changes everything. The sudden burst of inspiration that makes the next step feel obvious.
We spend so much time waiting for the thing that will move us forward.
But what if there is no external thing coming?
In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast for People, Megan Senese challenges the idea that inspiration has to strike before you take action. She explores why clarity often comes after you begin, and why the person you have been waiting on to move your career, business, or life forward might be you.
The inspiration you need may not be hiding in another book, podcast, conference, mentor, or opportunity. It may already be within you, waiting for you to trust it.
You are not only the person waiting for something to change.
You are the person who can change it.
Who This Episode Is For:
Lawyers waiting to feel ready before taking the next step
Professionals feeling stuck or lacking motivation
Anyone looking for greater clarity in their career or business
People waiting for the perfect idea, timing, or opportunity before they begin
Episode Takeaways:
External inspiration can be valuable, but it cannot act for you
Waiting for the perfect moment can keep you from making progress
Small, intentional steps create momentum and confidence
You are the person most invested in your own growth and success
When You Are Waiting for Inspiration:
We keep waiting for the thing that will finally move us forward: the right idea, the right person, the right opportunity, or the confidence to begin.
But inspiration can only take us so far. At some point, we have to stop waiting to be chosen, noticed, or given permission.
The thing you are waiting for may already be within you.
Stop waiting for the thing.
You are the inspiration you need.
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
How Do You Become a Law Firm CMO? Leadership Lessons (with Koree Khongphand-Buckman)
What does it really take to become a Chief Marketing Officer at a major law firm?
For Koree Khongphand-Buckman, the answer isn't a title. It's earning the trust, credibility, and influence to help shape the future of a firm.
“The title of CMO was more about, what do you get to do? I wanted the opportunity to impact and drive particular things within a firm, and to work with leadership at the highest levels.”
In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast for People, legal marketing strategists Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey sit down with Koree, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Foley & Lardner LLP, to discuss her journey from an accounting background to one of the most respected leadership roles in legal marketing.
From surviving her first week in legal marketing to building firmwide client feedback and lateral integration programs, Koree shares the lessons that helped her become a trusted advisor to firm leadership and why the best legal marketers think like business leaders.
Whether you're an aspiring CMO, a legal marketer looking to expand your influence, or a lawyer interested in how firms grow, this conversation is full of practical leadership advice you can apply immediately.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
How Koree moved from accounting into legal marketing
What it takes to progress from marketer to strategic business leader
Why relationships often open more doors than titles
How to position yourself for leadership opportunities before you feel fully ready
Why owning your work changes how firm leaders see you
How Koree built client feedback and lateral integration programs from the ground up
Why the best CMOs ask better questions instead of pretending to have every answer
How to become a trusted advisor to lawyers and firm leadership
Why leadership does not have to be lonely
How great leaders create opportunities for the people around them
Why legal marketers should stop waiting for permission to grow their careers
About Koree Khongphand-Buckman: Koree Khongphand-Buckman is chief marketing & business development officer (CMBDO) at Foley & Lardner LLP where she is responsible for leading the firm’s business development, marketing, client service and branding efforts across all practices, industries, sectors and offices to help the firm achieve its strategic objectives. With 20 years of professional services marketing experience, Koree is adept at crafting and implementing growth strategies for new and existing clients.
Learn More:
Connect with Koree
This episode is brought to you by Lateral Hub:
Lateral Hub is the premier job board for top large, midsize, and boutique firms. Over 75 firms use their flat-fee membership to promote openings to laterals and judicial clerks as a transparent, targeted, affordable alternative to headhunters or LinkedIn. No hassle. No placement fees. Hiring in 2026? Don’t recruit like it’s the Stone Age.
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.
5 Ways Lawyers Can Grow a Sustainable Book of Business (Minis with Megan)
Building a book of business does not begin with finding the perfect strategy. It begins with taking thoughtful, consistent action before you feel completely ready.
In this mini episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast for People, Megan Senese shares five principles that helped stage grow from an idea into a legal marketing and business development consultancy.
These are not shortcuts; these are practical, relationship-first approaches that lawyers can use to become more visible, build stronger professional relationships, and grow a sustainable book of business over time. More importantly, they are designed to be realistic enough to keep doing, because the best business development strategy is one you can actually sustain.
Who this episode is for:
Lawyers who want to build or grow their book of business sustainably
Attorneys beginning a new role, launching a practice, or building a firm
Legal marketers supporting lawyer business development
Anyone who has been waiting for the “right time” to begin or needs a kickstart
Five sustainable ways lawyers can kickstart their business development
1. Start before you feel ready
There is rarely a perfect time to begin business development. Momentum comes from taking the first step and continuing to show up.
2. Get specific about who you help
The clearer you are about the people you serve and the problems you solve, the easier it becomes for others to understand your value and connect you with the right opportunities.
3. Reach out like a real person
Strong business development is built through genuine relationships, not polished sales pitches. Lead with curiosity, generosity, and a real interest in the person on the other side of the conversation.
4. Build your network in a way that fits you
You do not have to follow someone else’s networking formula. Choose approaches that reflect your personality, strengths, and capacity so your business development feels natural, realistic, and sustainable.
5. Play the long game
Business development is relationship development. Trust, credibility, referrals, and meaningful opportunities grow through consistency, not one-time efforts or quick wins.
You do not need to have everything figured out before you begin. You need clarity about who you want to help, a willingness to connect authentically, and a business development approach you can keep showing up for over time.
Ready to take the first step?
Email us at info@stage.guide with “Kickstart” in the subject line, and we will send you our one-page guide, 5 Ways to Kickstart Your Business Development.
Tell us what you are working toward or where you are feeling stuck. We would love to hear from you.
Stay Connected:
At stage, we believe business development isn't about chasing clients; it's about building trust. We help lawyers create authentic, relationship-first strategies that grow practices one meaningful connection at a time.
Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human.
“I’m Not a Rainmaker”: The Story You Might Be Telling Yourself as a Lawyer
What if the biggest thing holding your career back is not your skill, your experience, or your ambition, but the story you have been telling yourself?
"I'm not a rainmaker."
"I'm bad at business development."
"I'm just not wired for networking."
They shape how we show up, what opportunities we pursue, and what kind of growth we believe is possible.
In this episode of So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, Megan Senese and Jennifer Ramsey sit down with Mary Ellen Murrah, Chief Marketing Officer at Vista Consulting Team, for a candid conversation about career identity, authentic relationship development, law firm growth, consulting, operations, and the changing plaintiff-side legal market.
Mary Ellen shares how she moved from aspiring lawyer to legal marketing leader, what she has learned helping plaintiff firms grow, and why meaningful progress rarely comes from strategy alone. It comes from implementation, accountability, and the willingness to stop copying someone else’s version of success.
This episode is for anyone who has ever thought, “That’s just not who I am,” and wondered whether there might be a more honest, more effective way to grow.
You’ll hear about:
Why the labels we place on ourselves can quietly shape our careers
How to reframe business development as relationship development
Why authentic networking works better than forcing yourself into someone else’s style
Mary Ellen’s path from aspiring lawyer to legal marketing leader
What Vista Consulting Team helps plaintiff law firms actually implement
Why accountability is often the missing piece after a consulting engagement
The operational differences between plaintiff firms and traditional billable-hour firms
How private equity is reshaping the plaintiff-side legal market
What makes a law firm attractive for acquisition
Why growth often begins with questioning the story you have been repeating
Whether you are building a book of business, leading a team, growing a law firm, or trying to step into your next chapter with more confidence, this conversation offers a more human way to think about success.
Listen to the episode and consider what might change if you stopped defining yourself by the labels that limit you.
About Mary Ellen Murrah:
Mary Ellen Murrah is the Chief Marketing Officer at Vista Consulting Team, where she helps plaintiff law firms grow through operational strategy, leadership development, and marketing. With more than two decades of experience in legal technology, law firm leadership, and business operations, she works closely with firms across the U.S. and Canada to improve efficiency, strengthen culture, and prepare for sustainable growth.
Learn More:
Bring these types of conversations to your law firm.
These podcast conversations are the same ones happening quietly inside law firms.
Through stage, we work with lawyers at every level and with legal marketing teams on client service, business development, and growth built on real relationships. If these themes are coming up inside your firm, let’s chat.